Talk:Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: 1: 12 months

Palestine Mid‑importance

	Palestine portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Palestine, a team effort dedicated to building and maintaining comprehensive, informative and balanced articles related to the geographic Palestine region, the Palestinian people and the State of Palestine on Wikipedia. Join us by visiting the project page, where you can add your name to the list of members where you can contribute to the discussions.PalestineWikipedia:WikiProject PalestineTemplate:WikiProject PalestinePalestine-related articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Politics: Political parties Low‑importance

	Politics portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Politics, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of politics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PoliticsWikipedia:WikiProject PoliticsTemplate:WikiProject Politicspolitics articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by Political parties task force (assessed as Low-importance).

Crime and Criminal Biography: Terrorism Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Crime and Criminal Biography articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Crime and Criminal BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyCrime-related articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by the Terrorism task force (assessed as Mid-importance).

Socialism

	Socialism portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Socialism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of socialism on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SocialismWikipedia:WikiProject SocialismTemplate:WikiProject Socialismsocialism articles
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

Warning: active arbitration remedies

The contentious topics procedure applies to this article. This article is related to the Arab–Israeli conflict, which is a contentious topic. Furthermore, the following rules apply when editing this article:

You must be logged-in and extended-confirmed to edit or discuss this topic on any page (except for making edit requests, provided they are not disruptive)
You may not make more than 1 revert within 24 hours on any edits related to this topic

Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page.

Further information

The exceptions to the extended confirmed restriction are:

Non-extended-confirmed editors may use the "Talk:" namespace only to make edit requests related to articles within the topic area, provided they are not disruptive.
Non-extended-confirmed editors may not create new articles, but administrators may exercise discretion when deciding how to enforce this remedy on article creations. Deletion of new articles created by non-extended-confirmed editors is permitted but not required.

With respect to the WP:1RR restriction:

Clear vandalism of whatever origin may be reverted without restriction. Also, reverts made solely to enforce the extended confirmed restriction are not considered edit warring.
Editors who violate this restriction may be blocked by any uninvolved administrator, even on a first offence.

After being warned, contentious topics procedure can be used against any editor who repeatedly or seriously fails to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process. Contentious topic sanctions can include blocks, topic-bans, or other restrictions.
Editors may report violations of these restrictions to the Arbitration enforcement noticeboard.

If you are unsure if your edit is appropriate, discuss it here on this talk page first. When in doubt, don't revert!

the 2014 Jerusalem synagogue massacre

Fyi - The claim that there is no connection to the Popular Front is a bit delusional, on the tombstones of the murderers there is the logo of the Popular Front

also: i can't find a source to this claim "The Israeli police concluded it was a lone wolf operation."

this is the best source i found ( cite from the israeli wiki : "The Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine claimed after the massacre that the terrorists were among its ranks, but repeated it a few hours later.")

via: https://www.terrorism-info.org.il/en/20731/

"7. The Abu Ali Mustafa Brigades, the PFLP's military-terrorist wing, issued a formal statement praising the attack in Jerusalem, stressing that the two terrorists belonged to its ranks (Abu Ali Mustafa Brigades, November 18, 2014). Note: On November 11, 2014, the PFLP posted a notice on its website calling for confrontations with Israel to be escalated (PFLP website, November 11, 2014).

Left: Notice posted by the PFLP calling for escalation in attacks against Israel (PFLP website, November 11, 2014). Right: Formal PFLP notice claiming responsibility for the terrorist attack (Abu Ali Mustafa Brigades, November 18, 2014)

8. Several hours after the notice was posted the PFLP's military-terrorist wing withdrew its claim of responsibility. Its spokesman Abu Jamal said that "the information about the details of the action was [reported in haste]." In the evening the military-terrorist wing's official website changed the wording of the notice, and instead of the original "heroic action carried out by PFLP heroes," it read, "the heroic action carried out by the shaheeds…" (Abu Ali Mustafa Brigades website, November 18, 2014)."

Wrong information about Australia m

The lead says that the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine is recognized as a terrorist organization by the US (correct), the EU (correct), Japan (correct) and Australia - this one is incorrect. This is the full official list of organizations officially classified as terrorist organizations by the Australian government: https://www.nationalsecurity.gov.au/what-australia-is-doing/terrorist-organisations/listed-terrorist-organisations - the PFLP is not on the list, so I suggest removing Australia’s name from the lead. 2A02:14F:16F:6B25:EDF0:CF5C:7B68:F49D (talk) 10:36, 9 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Already done Deltaspace⁴² (talk • contribs) 17:19, 16 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Citations needed

What I think should be changed (format using {{textdiff}}):

This article needs citations for some of its key claims. The introduction has a line: "[It] promotes a one-state solution to the Israeli–Palestinian conflict, in a "democratic Palestine", where "Arabs and Jews would live without discrimination"." These quotes are quite interesting and readers would want to know where these quotes come from.

Another key example is in the "Attitude to the Peace Process" section: "George Habash in particular, and various other leaders in general advocated one state with an Arab identity in which Jews were entitled to live with the same rights as any minority. The PFLP declared that its goal was to "create a people's democratic Palestine, where Arabs and Jews would live without discrimination, a state without classes and national oppression, a state which allows Arabs and Jews to develop their national culture.""

Both of these sentences assert attitudes that are different than other Palestinian organizations and so are quite interesting to readers. In fact, they form the main claims of this section. However, there is no citation supporting either sentence. These quotations have been repeated across the internet, but there does not seem to be any source other than this Wikipedia article.

Why it should be changed:

Key claims in the article about the positions of the PFLP do not have citations associated with them. This makes it hard for readers to ascertain their validity or to do follow up research.

References supporting the possible change (format using the "cite" button):

Sansan100 (talk) 01:54, 4 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

References

"Neo-Stalinism"

I noticed that a recent edit added "Neo-Stalinism" as one of the ideologies. Reading the source leading to "The Palestinian Left Will Not Be Hijacked – A Critique of Palestine: A Socialist Introduction", we can see that the source does not support the view that the PFLP is "Stalinist" and is a critique of literature calling the PFLP "Stalinists". Therefore shouldn't the ideology of the PFLP be listed as "Neo-Stalinism (disputed)" at least, even without adding any more sources? History Emperor (talk) 09:13, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Arabic Pronunciations

There are far too many mysterious, unsourced, and misspelled Arabic names in Wikipedia. e.g. "al-Sha`biyyah" (with no citation), I don't know about the rest, but that's not pronounced "al" see Sun and moon letters.

A lot of places in Palestine, like the hospitals, e.g. Al-Shifa Hospital, seem to have common English pronunciations that use "al", but they're English not Arabic, leaving out all the Hamzas and Ayns and other letters that are not in English. Potentially Sun and moon letters page is inaccurate or over simplified?

But the PFLP has a lot of propaganda music that distinctly includes "ash-Shabiya" in the pronunciation of the name.

Unfortunately I'm stumped for a source we can actually cite? The official websites are legally dubious in some countries? (NB - The party website is there already, and is justifiable in that context, but since their YouTube channel got banned in early October the videos and media links on that site have all broken, the place that still has the music and speeches is the militant wing website, which is less justifiable on this page, especially just for pronunciation? there's probably better options.)

There might be a citable source out there somewhere with a written pronunciation?

Irtapil (talk) 01:41, 22 January 2024 (UTC) abridged Irtapil (talk) 05:47, 22 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I replaced the unsourced letter-for-letter with a sourced one from Britanica, best I can do for pronunciation is a footnote linking pages of general info. Irtapil (talk) 05:25, 22 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note that transliterations doesn't equate pronunciations. I don't really find a problem with using al- since this is used to transliterate the word rather than aid pronounce it. Makeandtoss (talk) 09:35, 22 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

File:PFLP Infobox Flag.svg has been deleted for violating copyright

Would it be possible to create a new infobox flag that doesn't violate copyright? Charles Essie (talk) 17:44, 14 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

File:Logo_of_PFLP.png is what should be used here. nableezy - 17:47, 14 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

We can't, it's copyrighted. Charles Essie (talk) 17:52, 14 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It's fair use here. You cant have copyrighted files on Commons, thats why it is on en.wp instead. nableezy - 17:57, 14 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

But we're only allowed to use it here. We need something that can be used on military conflict infoboxes via country data templates. The PFLP has one but it's missing a flag. Charles Essie (talk) 18:04, 14 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No, we dont need that, and no file that includes the logo, which is copyrighted, can be created that is not in turn copyrighted. You cant create a derivative work of a copyrighted work and avoid violating that copyright. nableezy - 18:54, 14 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It worked for these. Charles Essie (talk) 18:57, 14 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If any of those contain copyrighted logos they should be deleted from commons as well. nableezy - 18:58, 14 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Those have been altered enough to avoid copyright infringement. If you disagree then feel free to start deletion discussions. Charles Essie (talk) 19:03, 14 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Footnotes part is broken [pixel 6] aug 18, 24

i can't open the footnotes section, i tested it on my moms a52 5G and it's also not working, actions taken: - restarted phone - tried a second phone - tried a different network - reloaded the page (multiple times) 2A02:3100:809F:D300:229A:3961:F8B5:BB16 (talk) 13:05, 18 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It works for me both of mobile and desktop. On mobile footnotes open as popups. Alaexis_¿question? 09:36, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The UK also designates PFLP as a terror group.

See the UK Home Office list here: "PFLP-GC" https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/proscribed-terror-groups-or-organisations--2/proscribed-terrorist-groups-or-organisations-accessible-version#:~:text=Palestine%2DGeneral%20Command%20(-,PFLP,-%2DGC)%20%2D%20Proscribed%20June Zetarcos (talk) 01:01, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Done. Alaexis_¿question? 09:38, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Burrobert, thanks for noticing my mistake! Alaexis_¿question? 20:11, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Missing word in final bullet point on page

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

The final bullet point on the page reads:

"Three PFLP leaders, Imad Audi, PFLP’s military leader in Lebanon; and Mohammad Abdel Aal and Abdel Rahman Abdel Aal, members of the group’s political bureau, targeted and assassinated in Beirut’s central Kola district on 29 September 2024 Sunday night, during the September 2024 Lebanon strikes by Israel."

Please change it to:

"Three PFLP leaders, Imad Audi, PFLP’s military leader in Lebanon; and Mohammad Abdel Aal and Abdel Rahman Abdel Aal, members of the group’s political bureau, were targeted and assassinated in Beirut’s central Kola district on 29 September 2024 Sunday night, during the September 2024 Lebanon strikes by Israel." Infectedfreckle (talk) 23:16, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: The suggested wording is an improvement, but this line was removed from the article after the request was opened. Jamedeus (talk) 03:21, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Progressive Youth Union

Does the PFLP have a branch called the Progressive Youth Union? If so, should we add a few words about it to this article? 98.123.38.211 (talk) 15:09, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"Declared a terrorist org. by G7" belongs in 1st paragraph

The PFLP has been declared a "terrorist org." by all G7 states, which include 3 out of 5 permanent members of the UN Security Council, and the 27 states of the European Union - taken together, arguably the majority of all countries functioning under the rule of law and democracy. The org, its activities and active members are outlawed there, its assets are liable to confiscation. It's a no-brainer that this is an essential fact about the org, which most naturally belongs at the top of the lead.

I have NOT added any info or source except adding the year when the ban became law in the 5 places already mentioned BEFORE my edit (US, EU, Japan, Canada and UK).

This considered, neither MOS: Terrorist nor MOS: lead rules apply as arguments against my edit.

NB: Bulk reverts are not permissible, i.e. removing the years along with again placing the fact in case far down in the lead. That is only an indicator of knee-jerk, lazy editing. Arminden (talk) 16:31, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The western word is not the centre of the universe (it's in the minority and so are its views), and besides, the content in question shouldn't even be in the lead section (as it's not covered in the article's body), let alone the first paragraph. I hope you're not suggesting that what you did is permissible (you've been around long enough to know that once your edit has been challenged, you need to seek consensus for it). M.Bitton (talk) 01:53, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]